Discussion about The Window

This Forum talks about The Window and has the links for conversion using other published rules.

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Discussion about The Window

Postby PMiller » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:46 am

This thread is to discuss using The Window in the PbP environment.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:10 am

I'm going to use this thread a lot :mrgreen:


So first question.....is it wise to mix super powers/skills/feats from the d20 modern guide with that of the PF guide?
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby PMiller » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:16 am

Herzog wrote:So first question.....is it wise to mix super powers/skills/feats from the d20 modern guide with that of the PF guide?

I would need an example.

I would say it depends on what you are going for in the campaign.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:27 am

Tactical Aid is the super power I am looking at. It is for an NPC in the BC.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby PMiller » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:50 am

Herzog wrote:Tactical Advantage is the super power I am looking at. It is for an NPC in the BC.
Balance-wise, I don’t see why not. Much of the similarities between d20 games would make that easily enough done.

However, it comes down to the GM’s adherence to the setting they are committing their game to. If you claim it is a converted PF game, then start allowing things from other genres and rules, you have intentionally deviated from your setting. Nothing wrong with that, but it opens a door that you as GM might not want to open.

I did see what you are going for in The Black Company and it makes sense for Uthgar. But why not just take Inspire Courage instead. PF actually has some other classes that have access to something similar without being a bard. It is a Monk Archetype (sensei).
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:57 am

Hmm. I will take a look. I had thought about inspire courage, but bard didn't fit the character. I will look at the monk archetype when I get home.


Also, when looking at xp in the guide, do you have a rough idea of what one translate to 1 levels worth of xp?
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby PMiller » Tue Sep 01, 2015 3:02 am

I figure it is roughly 8xp
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:55 pm

So combat....

You have the attack vs agility? If they have armor is it always vs the armor? or which ever is higher? This has been confusing me.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby PMiller » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:00 am

Herzog wrote:So combat....

You have the attack vs agility? If they have armor is it always vs the armor? or whichever is higher? This has been confusing me.
Physical attacks are usually versus Agility, but could be acrobatics skill, appropriate martial arts ability, or whatever else fits the situation. So you could use Armor to substitute instead if it is better, but you would already be using it to resist damage instead. Defensive rolls can be situational and the player can use what makes the most narrative sense.

I have been using Armor as defense against the damage (making it Opposed to the Attack Roll), and ask the players to roll both it and Agility in defense. But that is not what it says in The Window so I should revisit the wording on my reference for running combat. You can use Armor in place of Health Checks on resisting damage against a target number.

How you treat Armor can be open to interpretation and situational as well. Initially I was thinking it would negate damage, but that is probably not always realistic. Bullet versus leather armor would only reduce damage a bit, but full plate could completely deflect a sword’s stroke. However, that is still reflected in the Armor rating versus whatever target number assigned by the GM for the Attack’s damage.

I am learning too and Fallout brought up some things I can do better myself to make it run smoothly in PbP to help players self-resolve. I have gone and updated Armor, Combat, and Damage sections in all three guides now.

I like what you came up with in Fallout (even if you are just figuring it out ;) ) regarding the idea of minions. I think you can categorize opponents into three areas:

1. Pure minions: They defend with Agility (or a substitute), and when they get hit with a weapon capable of fatal damage (i.e. gun or sword), they are dead. That means no Health (or Armor) Check required. If the Attack was a Tie, they are probably only wounded.

2. Minor Foes: They defend with Agility (or a substitute), and when they get hit with a weapon capable of fatal damage (i.e. gun or sword), they roll Health (or Armor) Check to see if the wound is fatal or not. If they fail to resist damage, then they are killed. If they passed, then they suffer reduction of Heath or Armor instead. That makes them easier to kill the next time. If they were already reduced to d30 in resisting damage, then they are dead instead of rolling to resist.

3. Major Foes (and PCs): They defend with Agility (or a substitute), and when they get hit with a weapon capable of fatal damage (i.e. gun or sword), they roll Health (or Armor) Check to resist damage. They might be able to shrug off some damage completely, or only suffer a loss of 1 rung. Failure to resist could be loss of 1 rung or more. I would say this depends on the weapon and the attacker. Even if they fail to resist damage, they are going to be tough enough to take a few hits as their Health and/or Armor gets reduced. Plus they could even have Luck Trait to help save themselves from getting killed too.

In light of this discussion, I am rethinking how I plan to run combat and the meta-game information I provide. For Minions and Minor NPCs, I will perhaps allow Players to self-resolve. But only letting them know if they hit Major NPCs and rolling the Health/Armor Checks myself.

But on the other side of the round, I will let players resolve their defense themselves and write that providing the Incoming Attack Roll to beat and the Target number of Damage to resist. With spells or other atypical attacks, they would need to know more about the failure’s results (i.e. Sleep spell).

Revised Combat Reference for PbP | Show
1. Combat in the Window is relegated to the status of just another scene, without a whole chapter of complex rules to manage it. In most stories, combat is nothing more than a fast and exciting byline to a larger plot, and it can be handled using the same simple rules used for everything else. Simply put, it is not about dice rolling, but about writing and describing the action.

2. There is no Initiative, so effectively I will resolve actions in the order they are posted or consider them to happen simultaneously if that is more appropriate in a situation.

3. Combat in The Window uses opposed checks and on the surface it can appear that it could slow down combat resolution. However, I am going to provide some meta-game information so you will be able to self-resolve some of your actions. You will roll your offense die and the opposition’s corresponding defensive die when provided. For some foes, Health/Armor Check information will also be provided to potentially resolve the wounds too. So you will at least know if an action is successful and for lesser foes, you could also know whether you killed them. For tougher foes, I will resolve their Health or Armor checks when attacks are successful.

4. When the foes take actions against your characters, I will end up rolling your defensive checks if the results are needed before others can act. Other times I will provide the result of an Attack Roll and the Target to resist the damage of the attack if it hits, leaving you to write up the results in your narrative.

Because Luck can come into play by providing a means of negating or mitigating the opposition’s success that will always be left up to the players. As a last ditch effort, you can sacrifice a rung of Luck to negate a failure (effectively achieving an auto-success on the Health or Defensive check the GM rolled). Until we are all familiar, I will try to let you know when situations occur where Luck can come into play.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:08 am

THis helps immensely and clears up the confusion I had. Thanks. We will continue working on this as things go along.

At any rate. The minion idea was not intentional, but it works well. It pushes self resolving and some the scene writing back on the players themselves, making the game all that much better. The only concern I have with it, and it's really minor, is that it's going to make the players a bit heroic in nature, when they can wade through a ton of minions. But then again, they are the heroes of the story.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Mercevial Xenn » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:31 pm

Herzog wrote: The only concern I have with it, and it's really minor, is that it's going to make the players a bit heroic in nature, when they can wade through a ton of minions. But then again, they are the heroes of the story.


Isn't that what minions are for? Lol... I think PCs are heroic. If people were completely satisfied playing out the lives of regular folk there'd be no need for gaming :wink:

I love using minions for this purpose in the game I run. It gives the players a heroic vibe and makes the tougher opponents really pop. Plus it allows the scenario to have an 'against all odds' feel to it without having every single battle you have be one you barely skim by with your life.

You can still make them challenging with the big baddies, but even minions can chip away at you through time and numbers.

I think of video games where your enemies get tougher as you level up. (Oblivion). No one wants to hit level 25 and get owned by a rat!

Ummm.... The point of this post was... Yay minions!!
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby PMiller » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:52 am

Herzog wrote:The only concern I have with it, and it's really minor, is that it's going to make the players a bit heroic in nature, when they can wade through a ton of minions. But then again, they are the heroes of the story.
I put that back on the GM in their encounter design. There is no requirement to have minions, and certainly there should not be any at 1st level.

But picture 3-4th level PF characters versus kobolds, those are basically cannon fodder. But while they are there, they get attacks and might get lucky and do damage. And you still have to wade through those little buggers to get to the boss.

Mercevial Xenn wrote:I love using minions for this purpose in the game I run.
Did I miss somewhere that you are running a game?

Mercevial Xenn wrote:Ummm.... The point of this post was... Yay minions!!

Baa-naa-naa-na! :p
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Mercevial Xenn » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:38 am

Thanks for the thumbnail, P

Re: the game I run: yeah.. I ran a tabletop back in the early 90's for my buds. We all grew up and apart(Canada apart... Which can be really far! Ha ha) I made a Freeforums account and have a private, rules very random and light game going for their overpowered, bizarre characters... A dwarf sorcerer with 10 secret triggers that make him snap... A serial killer monk... A rogue who had WHELP carved into his forehead by a kobold and an assassin who is a really, really great guy!

But only for fun and to get their feet wet in PbP... I've invited them over here but they have all refused. For now they like the casual privacy of the locked forum
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:36 am

For what it's worth, we can make a forum private to a select group of individuals. But I understand staying on their forums, I am the same way with URPGs.
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Re: Discussion about The Window

Postby Herzog » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:51 pm

How would you handle a witches hexes? I am looking to build one as an NPC for the BC.

Also, on Uthgar, I can change the super power to be like inspire courage as it is for the Bard. I just want to flavor it differently. Uthgar is not a bard, he's tone deaf, and only sings when drunk, and those songs would just be rawdy drinking songs.
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