Saltmarsh OOC Thread

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Series of adventures set in Greyhawk's campaign setting. The adventurers are currency running through the ancient dwarven stronghold under the Stone Tooth.

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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby FrancisJohn » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:13 am

Hahahahahahahahaha bazinga!
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby FrancisJohn » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:57 am

On a more serious note, with the holidays and whatnot, my posts might be quite sporadic until after the new year begins.

Happy Holidays everyone!
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby FrancisJohn » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:40 am

well, this is a rather tense situation.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby PMiller » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:41 pm

Happy New Year from the future. (It is 2017 here for those still back in 2016)
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby FrancisJohn » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:51 am

Happy New Year from the.... past?
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby PMiller » Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:17 am

FrancisJohn wrote:Happy New Year from the.... past?

If you reached the New Year then you are in the same year as me. ;) So that would be the present.

Usually I post my New Year's greeting right after midnight since I am always up and home, but this year I have not been on-line as much. Mostly family time keeping me off the computer.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby PMiller » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:34 am

It looks like you all have a split along the lines of Alignment. The two Good characters cannot simply let the Neutral characters shoot the defenseless/unarmed woman regardless of their baseless suspicions. ;)

You all failed any Sense Motive checks so have zero evidence of lying or falsehoods, btw. You can choose to be mistrustful, but shooting Idalla without provocation will shift Hellsing's alignment towards evil and chaotic. Her alignment was originally NG with the first player, but I don't recall if it was changed to something neutral or not.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby FrancisJohn » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:42 am

hrm... I'll have to consider Araella's next post carefully.

but to kid, it's not like one itty bitty arrow would down her. ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby Aoro Hellsing » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:09 am

Hellsing's alignment is Neutral. If she was originally Neutral Good, I must have changed it when you let me re-make the character.

The suspicions are not baseless. They are informed by Idalla's actions, based on observation and empirical evidence. I was going to post to have Hellsing answer Morrolan's and Orekk's questions, but I didn't want to trample over a DM response. But if it is appropriate to post again, I will have Hellsing speak to lay out her thoughts.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby PMiller » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:33 am

Well, as long as you are not basing any assessment on the picture I choose or metagame information, then everything is all good. ;)

Hellsing, your initial reaction to her appearance was based upon an avatar that I decided to use as close enough instead of accurate to her appearance. My impression is that the mistrust started there and not based upon real information.

Also none of you have any negative Sense Motive evidence to go on. Since it is an opposed check against a Bluff Roll, you cannot know for sure if you all failed or if she was telling the truth.

I guess, I might have implied you all failed that check, but Idalla has not actually lied to you all.

Also, I will point out that openly threatening and hostile actions and words of you guys have prevented Idalla from becoming friendly and remaining indifferent to the party. While she is friendly towards Orekk, it is countered by being unfriendly towards Hellsing. So if you all expected grateful, that has been negated already.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby Aoro Hellsing » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:45 am

The initial suspicion was based specifically on her reaction to our arrival - i.e., immediately declaring us to be her rescuers, which struck me as extremely odd. This initial suspicion dovetailed with your written description of her appearance, which was:

PMiller wrote:A slender woman of medium height and long, black hair sat in a chair at the table looking extremely sad. Her clothing looked well-worn, though it did little to detract from the beauty of her appearance.


I thought that what you wrote supported the picture you chose, and was a deliberate clue on your part to give us insight into her true nature. A person who had been imprisoned in a room "a really long time" would surely have greasy, tangled, and stringy hair, a blotchy and blemish-ridden complexion, foul body odor and bad breath, grimy and possibly broken nails if she had been trying to escape, gaunt features from malnutrition, among other signs - all of which would certainly detract from the beauty of her appearance. So from that, I thought the only sign of her long imprisonment was the well-worn clothing, since you took the time to specifically mention it.

If she does indeed have greasy hair and blotchy skin and the rest, then it is my mistake for assuming. Or if the magical imprisonment, or her "extraplanar nature" has preserved her physical beauty but let her clothing wear normally, then that is also my mistake for assuming.

Aside from the heavy initial clue of her reaction - even if I am to exclude the note about her physical appearance, which I may or may not be correct about - there have been several red flags in her behavior, word choice, and actions that make it very clear that she is deliberately misrepresenting herself and her motivations. I colloquially referred to this as "lying", even if that is an oversimplification of what is actually happening, if her words have been technically true. There have also been further clues to her devious nature, ones that I had again been assuming you were placing deliberately. I thought you were laying the groundwork for her eventual betrayal of the party in a really subtle way, placing near-subliminal clues that would give us reason simultaneously slap our palms to our foreheads, and congratulate you on your excellent storytelling.

Regarding the Sense Motive rolls, I do not choose to let the dice dictate what my character thinks and does, instead relying on observation and logical deduction. Since we do not know if we truly failed our Sense Motive rolls, or if she is telling the truth, but there is a body of evidence that supports that she is deliberately misleading us, I choose to interpret this as that my character does firmly believe Idalla is misrepresenting herself and has bad intentions, but is such a good liar that she shows no sign of it. There is no dissonance there, as both things can be simultaneously true. Hellsing knows that she is not personally an expert in reading body language, so Idalla could be passing off these prevarications in the smoothest and least obvious way possible.

Right now, she is feeling like Idalla presents a clear and present danger to the party, and Hellsing's openly threatening and hostile actions are a deliberate choice. I will say that I believe that if Idalla does approach one of the party members, Hellsing shooting her would not be an evil or chaotic act. I would liken this to the real-world situation of police officers with guns trained on an unarmed suspect. The officers would give strong verbal warnings to the suspect, but if the suspect refuses to comply and approaches one of them, they would shoot the suspect. The officers in question might get some flack for not using a taser, or not attempting a physical takedown, but as they can't be sure if the suspect has a hidden weapon or is a master of krav maga, the use of deadly force would be warranted in most cases in order to keep their fellow officers safe.

In a D&D world, these concerns are even more justified, as a seemingly normal-looking and unarmed person could have invisible magical weapons, spell-like abilities, be intending to cast a spell or summon a weapon, or have some other magical hidden nature that could be deadly.

However, if you are telling me that I am wrong and have been interpreting these observations incorrectly, and are actually harming the game with my character's stance (if, for example, the next part of the game depends on Idalla becoming friendly to the party, possibly giving us information, an item, or aid, or even joining the party as an NPC), then I will have Hellsing walk away and let the rest of the party deal with Idalla themselves. I think you know that I do not like to cause problems in games, and actively work to be agreeable and support others, even if I don't necessarily agree with their direction.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby PMiller » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:53 am

Ahh, I see. I suppose those initial impressions on the appearance and her first words colored everything.

I see that you pretty much picked apart all my role-playing to key on every single subtly that all was not as it appeared. I suppose I should be flattered that my role-playing is good enough for that. :mrgreen:

Much of the information I have to go on doesn’t address her appearance or how she survived trapped in a room… I don’t even have information of exactly how long it has been. Maybe the spell that contained her acted like a ring of sustenance so she was never hungry or thirsty. Dunno.

I don’t think you are causing problems, I just did not see how you could be so sure of your convictions. But once the bell is rung, it cannot be unrung. ;)

RP it the way you want. It is all good.

I am just waiting on your IC post, Hellsing and then Idalla will transform into a dragon and eat you all. Muhahahahahaha! j/k
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby Morrolan » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:26 pm

Morrolan has Wisdom damaged right now, so he is not able to judge things as well as he should.

While I agree with the reasoning you have, Hellsing, I don't think Morrolan could determine those same things with the Wisdom damage and did not want to metagame the situation based upon typical paranoia for anything the GM puts efforts into that makes an NPC interaction obviously not routine. ;)
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby PMiller » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:07 pm

I updated the Scroll’s spells. Source material is 3.0 edition and I forgot that some things are different in 3.5 edition. It should be Alter Self and Reduce Person.

Btw, Hellsing your Signature is missing the link to your character sheet.
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Re: Saltmarsh OOC Thread

Postby Aoro Hellsing » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:12 am

Hey Boss, sorry about that! I removed the link because it went to the old sheet, which had been taken offline. My new sheet is not finalized yet because I made a mistake on the skill points and haven't sorted it out yet. I'll let you know when I fix the sheet, and I'll fix my signature then.
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